Hi,
I recently did a reading and got a couple of reversed cards. The reading displayed fine, showing the card info for the Straight card and both lots of reversed info.
However on saving the reading ONE of the reversed cards was missing its card info. I realised that this card reads the same for both Straight and Reversed. In the Deck 'Runes Ralph Blum (English)' it appears that a few such cards have no info in the Reversed section, but display correctly in the reading, BUT NOT in the saved reading.
It appears that the main program is more clever than the Saved Readings module. For the time being this incosistency in behaviour can be rectified by copying and pasting the info from the Straight section into the Reversed section for all such cards.
However a better solution would be to make the Saved Readings module's behaviour the same as the main program!
I hope this is a helpful bug report and would help anyone else in the meantime.
Regards Greg the Yeti
Orphalese 8.1.1.1
Runes Ralph Blum (English)
'Three Rune Spread', which I uploaded a few days ago.
Saved Readings and Reversed Card Info
Moderators: Programmer, WebWeaver, WillowsHeart
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Greg the Yeti
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Greg the Yeti
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Saved Readings and Reversed Card Info
Hi again,
I note that the Shared Deck Runes Ralph Blum (English) has already been updated in accordance with my earlier suggestion. If any of you don't want the bother of editing the Card Info yourself then you could download again.
Regards Greg the Yeti
I note that the Shared Deck Runes Ralph Blum (English) has already been updated in accordance with my earlier suggestion. If any of you don't want the bother of editing the Card Info yourself then you could download again.
Regards Greg the Yeti
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Programmer
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Saved Readings and Reversed Card Info
Hi Greg,
Thanks for pointing that out. As you will have noticed, the behaviour of the Readings wizard is cumostisable to some extent. When you first open the form you should see a button marked Edit the Template for New Readings. This is where you can determine which notes you want to import into the reading, i.e. the card notes, your personal card notes, the spread notes, and in what order. You can also add your own text to the template in the form of standard header and footers, and opt to import reversed notes when they exist. If they do you get two sets of notes, the upright and reversed. Like you say, the behaviour isn't the same as the program itself which, when reversed notes are called for, gives you the reversed notes if they exist, or otherwise the upright notes. The reading wizard gives you everything and lets you decide what you want to keep. The thinking behind this was that if you are doing a reading for someone who is not very familiar with the cards you might want to show them both sets of notes so they can get the benefit of the contrast.
Cheers
Richard
Thanks for pointing that out. As you will have noticed, the behaviour of the Readings wizard is cumostisable to some extent. When you first open the form you should see a button marked Edit the Template for New Readings. This is where you can determine which notes you want to import into the reading, i.e. the card notes, your personal card notes, the spread notes, and in what order. You can also add your own text to the template in the form of standard header and footers, and opt to import reversed notes when they exist. If they do you get two sets of notes, the upright and reversed. Like you say, the behaviour isn't the same as the program itself which, when reversed notes are called for, gives you the reversed notes if they exist, or otherwise the upright notes. The reading wizard gives you everything and lets you decide what you want to keep. The thinking behind this was that if you are doing a reading for someone who is not very familiar with the cards you might want to show them both sets of notes so they can get the benefit of the contrast.
Cheers
Richard
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Saved Readings and Reversed Card Info
That was customisable/customizable - I love inventing new words on a Sunday morning 
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Greg the Yeti
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Saved Readings and Reversed Card Info
Hi Richard
But the Problem with the 'Readings Wizard' was precisely that it was NOT dispalying ANYTHING for those cards which were the few in the Deck which did not have a reversed meaning. NOTHING! Repeat NOTHING!
So although I have the options set to use ALL the info from the cards, ONLY the reversed (non-existent for these cards) info is displayed, ie. NOTHING!
This is a REAL issue not one which can be talked away!
Regards Greg the Yeti
But the Problem with the 'Readings Wizard' was precisely that it was NOT dispalying ANYTHING for those cards which were the few in the Deck which did not have a reversed meaning. NOTHING! Repeat NOTHING!
So although I have the options set to use ALL the info from the cards, ONLY the reversed (non-existent for these cards) info is displayed, ie. NOTHING!
This is a REAL issue not one which can be talked away!
Regards Greg the Yeti
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WebWeaver
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Saved Readings and Reversed Card Info
Hi Greg and Richard, I just wanted to comment on the suggestion of changing how the reading wizard works, and changing it to work as the program itself does.
Please do not do that. I use the notes, how I want, in a personalized manner, not based on upright or reversed. 95 of the the decks I use, I use only upright. Having the option to import all the note information allows me to use the note information in a manner that works for me. One of the two main reasons I LOVE Orphalese is the customized (or customisable) use. I can do with the program, what I need, and want to.
Now for a bit of a suggestion to Greg. I'm hoping that your not really yelling as much as your ! and ALLCAPS make it seem you are. If there is a problem with the program, rest assured that Richard will fix it, no yelling necessary. I've never seen a bug or problem go unanswered, and I've been around for a few years.
Are you saying this is a bug? Or are you making a suggestion? It's a bit hard to tell from your 1st post.
You did a 3 card reading. Using the Runes Ralph Blum, and using the 3 card Runes spread.
You have checked in the Edit the Template for New Readings:
LWB Notes: Include, and Import both upright and reversed notes.
Personal Notes: Include, and Import both upright and reversed notes.
Spread Notes: Include.
And nothing showed for the reversed card
I did this same thing, and the reversed notes did not import. I then switched decks to the Traditional Tarot, and the reversed notes imported. Therefore the bug is connected to the deck used, not necessarily the program. I noticed that for each of the cards drawn, the Reversed and Upright meanings were the same.
I then went into the card notes, and made changes to the Rx notes, adding either a . or RX to the 1st line, for any card that didn't have a unique meaning for the Reversed notes, and it worked. The Spread Wizard pulled both meanings.
I then added notes to another deck. Making some of the exact duplicates and some unique, and the same thing happened. Only when the meanings were unique did the Spread Wizard import both. I then chose not to import both upright and reversed notes, and the correct meaning was imported. I would go back to your deck, and try to recreate this bug. It might have been something odd, or you could have unchecked the Include both and didn't realize it. As that would have cause the bug you experienced as you said there were cards missing Rx meanings.
So I wasn't able to duplicate your bug, as something did import each time. Can you check step by step and see what happens now? No one is talking away anything, but if you want something fixed, you need to be a bit clearer on the issue. Make sure it happens when you go step by step, and that it does indeed happen every time. I can't tell you the number of times I've thought something was wrong with a program only to find out I had changed something, and didn't remember it, and only going step by step found what I had changed.
And as a side note. I never realized the spread wizard did that, that is doesn't include both meanings when they are exactly the same, and find that exceptionally kewl.
Shari
Please do not do that. I use the notes, how I want, in a personalized manner, not based on upright or reversed. 95 of the the decks I use, I use only upright. Having the option to import all the note information allows me to use the note information in a manner that works for me. One of the two main reasons I LOVE Orphalese is the customized (or customisable) use. I can do with the program, what I need, and want to.
Now for a bit of a suggestion to Greg. I'm hoping that your not really yelling as much as your ! and ALLCAPS make it seem you are. If there is a problem with the program, rest assured that Richard will fix it, no yelling necessary. I've never seen a bug or problem go unanswered, and I've been around for a few years.
Are you saying this is a bug? Or are you making a suggestion? It's a bit hard to tell from your 1st post.
You did a 3 card reading. Using the Runes Ralph Blum, and using the 3 card Runes spread.
You have checked in the Edit the Template for New Readings:
LWB Notes: Include, and Import both upright and reversed notes.
Personal Notes: Include, and Import both upright and reversed notes.
Spread Notes: Include.
And nothing showed for the reversed card
I did this same thing, and the reversed notes did not import. I then switched decks to the Traditional Tarot, and the reversed notes imported. Therefore the bug is connected to the deck used, not necessarily the program. I noticed that for each of the cards drawn, the Reversed and Upright meanings were the same.
I then went into the card notes, and made changes to the Rx notes, adding either a . or RX to the 1st line, for any card that didn't have a unique meaning for the Reversed notes, and it worked. The Spread Wizard pulled both meanings.
I then added notes to another deck. Making some of the exact duplicates and some unique, and the same thing happened. Only when the meanings were unique did the Spread Wizard import both. I then chose not to import both upright and reversed notes, and the correct meaning was imported. I would go back to your deck, and try to recreate this bug. It might have been something odd, or you could have unchecked the Include both and didn't realize it. As that would have cause the bug you experienced as you said there were cards missing Rx meanings.
So I wasn't able to duplicate your bug, as something did import each time. Can you check step by step and see what happens now? No one is talking away anything, but if you want something fixed, you need to be a bit clearer on the issue. Make sure it happens when you go step by step, and that it does indeed happen every time. I can't tell you the number of times I've thought something was wrong with a program only to find out I had changed something, and didn't remember it, and only going step by step found what I had changed.
And as a side note. I never realized the spread wizard did that, that is doesn't include both meanings when they are exactly the same, and find that exceptionally kewl.
Shari
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I have had a look for the deck in question and it obviously isn't being shared right now, but in the meantime I have had a play with the program using a different deck, and revisited the code which generates the reading, and I have come up with a suggestion.
First of all, I have to say that Webweaver is quite right about how important it is to be methodical with this and not get lost in all the permutations. Obviously any card can be reversed or upright (two possibilities), but there may notes against the reversed position, or against the upright position, or both, or neither (four more possibilities). Then the user may have opted to import all notes in their reading, or just the notes that actually match the orientation of the card. That is two more possibilities which gives a matrix of sixteen cases. Some of them are obvious, but some of them need a bit more thrashing out. Dear, gentle, casual visitor who just happens to be reading this, please don't be scared by all this, the program is really quite easy to use
Anyway, I have had a play around with a normal deck and I have come up with a possible tweak to the way the notes work for the program in general, which I will include in the next beta (not yet uploaded). This just affects the behaviour of the deck when the user has opted only to include the notes relevant to the orientation of the card:
If the card is reversed, and there are no notes against the reversed position, and there are notes against the upright position, then those notes are included in the reading. The advantage of this is that the readings would work more in line with the way the program works, which I think is what Greg would have found more intuitive.
The reasoning for which notes are included would therefore go like this...
If the user opts to import all notes into their reading...
Show the upright notes whatever they are
If the reversed notes are not empty and the reversed notes
are not the same as the upright notes...
append the reversed notes underneath
Else (user only wants to see notes relevant to the card's orientation)
If the card in question is upright...
Import the upright notes.
(Maybe the upright notes are missing, and we do have some
reversed notes, but we don't include them).
Else
If the reversed notes are not empty...
Import the reversed notes
Else
If the upright notes are not empty...
Import the upright notes
Else
There is nothing to import in this case.
I will upload the next beta in a few days, and hopefully this description of how the program is intended to behave will give anyone interested in testing something definite to work with.
Cheers,
Richard
First of all, I have to say that Webweaver is quite right about how important it is to be methodical with this and not get lost in all the permutations. Obviously any card can be reversed or upright (two possibilities), but there may notes against the reversed position, or against the upright position, or both, or neither (four more possibilities). Then the user may have opted to import all notes in their reading, or just the notes that actually match the orientation of the card. That is two more possibilities which gives a matrix of sixteen cases. Some of them are obvious, but some of them need a bit more thrashing out. Dear, gentle, casual visitor who just happens to be reading this, please don't be scared by all this, the program is really quite easy to use
Anyway, I have had a play around with a normal deck and I have come up with a possible tweak to the way the notes work for the program in general, which I will include in the next beta (not yet uploaded). This just affects the behaviour of the deck when the user has opted only to include the notes relevant to the orientation of the card:
If the card is reversed, and there are no notes against the reversed position, and there are notes against the upright position, then those notes are included in the reading. The advantage of this is that the readings would work more in line with the way the program works, which I think is what Greg would have found more intuitive.
The reasoning for which notes are included would therefore go like this...
If the user opts to import all notes into their reading...
Show the upright notes whatever they are
If the reversed notes are not empty and the reversed notes
are not the same as the upright notes...
append the reversed notes underneath
Else (user only wants to see notes relevant to the card's orientation)
If the card in question is upright...
Import the upright notes.
(Maybe the upright notes are missing, and we do have some
reversed notes, but we don't include them).
Else
If the reversed notes are not empty...
Import the reversed notes
Else
If the upright notes are not empty...
Import the upright notes
Else
There is nothing to import in this case.
I will upload the next beta in a few days, and hopefully this description of how the program is intended to behave will give anyone interested in testing something definite to work with.
Cheers,
Richard
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Greg the Yeti
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Saved Readings and Reversed Card Info
Hi Shari,
I didn't mean to shout with my caps or Exclamation marks. Just emphasis. My Appologies for offending.
You mention switching to a 'Tradtitional Tarot' and the problem not happening. This is of course to be expected. The vast majority of Decks available for sharing have all the info on each card put into the Upright slot, regardless of if it refers to Upright or Reversed. Orphalese allows for this by displaying such info for both.
Like you I don't use Reversed cards a lot but with these Runes there is a lot of info for Reversed Runes. Now to avoid my mind being 'contaminated' by the wrong info I decided to use the Reversed card option and to configure the Deck so that the info for Reversed cards was only in the appropriate Reversed slot in the Card Data File. So far so good.
Except that the Runes do not have Reversed info appropriate for ALL the Runes. Orphalese displays the info under 'Upright', correctly understanding that it is for 'Dual Use'. The problem is that the Saved Readings Wizard does not do this.
I have no wish at all to restrict your choices or freedom in your readings or using Orphalese!!! I did not suggest in any way tampering with any OPTIONS that the Saved Reading Wizard offers. Indeed I was merely talking about more fully using those options, but commenting that it was not consistent with the main program.
Well the Deck as set up to use the full functionality of Orphalese for Reversals isn't currently suiatble for Upright Only use. I'm editing the Deck and will shortly have a Deck you might prefer for share. It will have both Upright and Reversed info but all put in the Upright slot.
I hope this convinces you of my good intentions.
Interestingly the only way I was able to update the file as shared was to remove it and rename it as something else. Otherwise the same Card Info came up when I checked the Downloaded file.(But that's another issue!)
Regards Greg the Yeti
I didn't mean to shout with my caps or Exclamation marks. Just emphasis. My Appologies for offending.
You mention switching to a 'Tradtitional Tarot' and the problem not happening. This is of course to be expected. The vast majority of Decks available for sharing have all the info on each card put into the Upright slot, regardless of if it refers to Upright or Reversed. Orphalese allows for this by displaying such info for both.
Like you I don't use Reversed cards a lot but with these Runes there is a lot of info for Reversed Runes. Now to avoid my mind being 'contaminated' by the wrong info I decided to use the Reversed card option and to configure the Deck so that the info for Reversed cards was only in the appropriate Reversed slot in the Card Data File. So far so good.
Except that the Runes do not have Reversed info appropriate for ALL the Runes. Orphalese displays the info under 'Upright', correctly understanding that it is for 'Dual Use'. The problem is that the Saved Readings Wizard does not do this.
I have no wish at all to restrict your choices or freedom in your readings or using Orphalese!!! I did not suggest in any way tampering with any OPTIONS that the Saved Reading Wizard offers. Indeed I was merely talking about more fully using those options, but commenting that it was not consistent with the main program.
Well the Deck as set up to use the full functionality of Orphalese for Reversals isn't currently suiatble for Upright Only use. I'm editing the Deck and will shortly have a Deck you might prefer for share. It will have both Upright and Reversed info but all put in the Upright slot.
I hope this convinces you of my good intentions.
Interestingly the only way I was able to update the file as shared was to remove it and rename it as something else. Otherwise the same Card Info came up when I checked the Downloaded file.(But that's another issue!)
Regards Greg the Yeti
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WebWeaver
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Saved Readings and Reversed Card Info
Hi Greg, I was thinking you were emphasizing, but just thought for everyones sake I'd make sure :o)
I also now understand what you were saying, you were requesting something, and yay! Richard has figured out how to work it in. Isn't he great! It sounds like from all the else, else, else, your going to get what you want, and it does indeed make sense. Of course as soon as it's uploaded... you know I'll be playing.
Happy Mothers Day to all the mudders btw!
Shari
I also now understand what you were saying, you were requesting something, and yay! Richard has figured out how to work it in. Isn't he great! It sounds like from all the else, else, else, your going to get what you want, and it does indeed make sense. Of course as soon as it's uploaded... you know I'll be playing.
Happy Mothers Day to all the mudders btw!
Shari
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Greg the Yeti
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Saved Readings and Reversed Card Info
Hi again,
While I was posting and dealing with sharing the edited Deck, Richard got back with his suggestion above which looks very promising. Thanks Richard (and sorry for my earlier tone!)
I look forward to testing that out and seeing how that works. As I've created two seperately set up Decks it should make it easier to see any difference or wrong operation.
Interestingly I'm wondering if your changes as mentioned above will take away what I see as a need for two seperately set up Decks.
One Deck for 'Normal People' (a group I've never been a member of!!!) with all the info regardless bundled in under Upright, and a
Second Deck with the info separated out so that it can be correctly displayed when using Reversals. I'm hoping it will.
Regards Greg the yeti
While I was posting and dealing with sharing the edited Deck, Richard got back with his suggestion above which looks very promising. Thanks Richard (and sorry for my earlier tone!)
I look forward to testing that out and seeing how that works. As I've created two seperately set up Decks it should make it easier to see any difference or wrong operation.
Interestingly I'm wondering if your changes as mentioned above will take away what I see as a need for two seperately set up Decks.
One Deck for 'Normal People' (a group I've never been a member of!!!) with all the info regardless bundled in under Upright, and a
Second Deck with the info separated out so that it can be correctly displayed when using Reversals. I'm hoping it will.
Regards Greg the yeti